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Posts Tagged ‘Open Third’

Only announced as being part of the Hornby 2018 range in January this year the  Maunsell 1st Class Kitchen Dining cars have now arrived and yes they are pretty much 1st Class and certainly up the standard that we have come to expect from Hornby for coaching stock. Often coupled to the Maunsell diagram 2005 Open 3rd coaches these will complete Southern / Southern Region express passenger rakes.

R4816 – SR Maunsell Kitchen Dining First Number 7869 Diagram 2656, in SR Green.

The versions being produced initially by Hornby are: R4816, SR Maunsell Kitchen Dining First Number 7869 Diagram 2656, in unlined SR Green; and R4817, BR Maunsell Kitchen Dining First Number S7861S Diagram 2651, in BR(s) Green.

Kitchen Diner First Digram 2556 No 7869 c1940 image copyright and courtesy M King

The Diagram 2656 cars were  built in 1932 and a later batch built in 1934 and other than the cooking equipment fitted were similar in body style to Diagram 2650. There has been much debate that Hornby have chosen to produce this model in unlined olive-green which is totally correct for post 1940s, as seen in the picture, left,  courtesy of friend and SR coach guru Mike King. Evidence also exists of members of the 1934 built batch having been introduced when new in unlined livery (See Gould, Oakwood Press; Maunsell’s SR Steam Passenger stock 1923 to 1939)

A 3/4 view of R4816 No. 7869

The Diagram 2651 in BR(s) green represents one of the six, originally built in 1927, coaches post rebuilding around 1935 to include the characteristic recessed double doors.

The other end of R4816 No. 7868 the representation of the lead weights on the solebar can be seen in in this picture

There were some slight bodyside differences between these and the subsequent 20 similar cars built in 1929 and 1930 which is one of the reason why after some discussion between the Hornby team and a number of contributors that the originally announced number of S7946S was changed, to suit photographic evidence, especially related to the size of the window next to the double doors.

A view of R4817 No. S7861S to Diagram 2651 in BR(s) green

The pictures of the models accompanying this post speak for themselves, and as stated above meet the standards we have come to expect to from Hornby for coaching stock especially with respect to the other Maunsell coaches they have produced.  The bodyside feature the relevant panel lines, hand rails on the ends and are nicely flush glazed, frosted where appropriate. Clip on corridor connection end doors are fitted but these can be removed, to reveal the closed inner doors, if required.

Another view of R4718 No. S7861S note the smaller window by the double doors

The interior is well moulded and the tables painted to represent white table clothes and includes the swan neck table lamp, although unlike the Pullman range these do not illuminate.
Curtains are printed on the inside of the glazing, which again has been an area of debate especially as they are uniform on each window, some may wish to remove these, and if doing so use only good quality methylated spirit on a cotton bud, do not use anything like enamel thinners or similar as this is likely to fog the glazing.

A view of the underframe

The Underframe is well detailed with sprung buffers and the nicely moulded delicate end bottom foot steps on each corner and also all the additional tanks and equipment associated with dining cars and the excellent Hornby standard SR 8ft Bogies are used. The lead weights that were located on the solebar, which were necessary to even up the wight distribution of the prototypes is also moulded.

A higher angle view of R4816 No. 7869 to show off the roof and its various vents and water tanks

The roof mouldings include the relevant water tanks and variety of vents needed especially over the kitchen area.

An accessory pack is included with each coach containing blank roof boards and Roco style close couplings, I will be using Kaydee No. 19 buckeye couplings as per the rest of my Hornby Maunsell coaching stock.

In  reality and to most eyes the Diagram 2656 and rebuilt Diagram 2651 cars are pretty similar and in many ways it is a shame that perhaps the tooling for the original Diagram 2651 cars has not been done, although perhaps this is still a future option? One very pedantic further point is that on the boxes Hornby have called these ‘Kitchen/Dinning coaches’ not sure where the additional ‘n’ comes from…

Overall these are a good and long-awaited additional to the range for Southern Modellers, one should hope that a SR lined green version will be announced in due course as although Hornby have publicaly stated that their tooling does not allow this, I like a number of others do not believe this to be the case.

Note: I have of course referenced Mike King’s excellent book in writing this post: An illustrated history of Southern Coaches, OPC  ISBN 0-86093-570-1 and David Gould: Maunsell’s SR Steam Passenger stock 1923 to 1939, Oakwood Press, that should grace any SR / BR(s) modellers book shelf.

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Further to my post earlier this week regarding the availability of the Hornby R4538 Maunsell open second class coach in BR green, its arrival has generated some discussion on a number of forums and email lists with respect to the prototype that Hornby have chosen to model.

Friend and guru of all things Southern coach related Chris Knowles-Thomas kindly provided a useful summary for the R4538 model, so I hope he does not mind me using his information as the basis of this post.

R4538 has the running number S1314S and carries set No. 104 on one end. Coach number 1314 was one of the diagram 2005 open thirds (1312 – 1361) built in 1933. Its designation changed to open second in 1956 when British Railways abolished the use of Third.

It was loose, i.e. not allocated to any particular set, from 1933 until November 1959 when it replaced the ex SE&CR diagram 52 non-corridor second 1063 in 2-set ‘W’ Number 104.  [Edit: although, see Clive Standen’s comment below, that it appears as allocated to South Eastern Division boat train set number 8 in 1957.]  The other coach in set 104 was Maunsell brake composite to diagram 2401 No. S6589S.
Hornby have also previously released a Brake Composite to diagram  2401 though not yet with the appropriate running number for set 104. This set was disbanded in June 1962 and 1314 reverted to lose stock. It was withdrawn in November 1962.

It is currently being debated whether S1314S carried set numbers in reality. Generally the Southern only applied set numbers to brake ends but at least some of the open seconds in 2-sets ‘W’ 100-110 are known to have had set number applied, e.g. set 103, so if anyone has any photo references for set 104 it would be good to know.

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Just a quick post to confirm that as advised in my delivery status update post, on 22nd May, the Hornby R4538 Maunsell open second class coach in BR green has now arrived with many retailers although those of you, like me, wanting the SR open third version will have to wait a little longer until September.
Although I do not have one of the BR liveried versions as it outside my usual 1946-1949 time period, I have in the past been fortunate to have had a close look at the pre-production sample, of course we have also seen the modified version as part of the 6xx series Pull Push sets, and it certainly maintains the high standards we have come to enjoy with the other Hornby Maunsell coaches produced to date.

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Firstly of course Happy New Year to you all!

Hornby’s 2012 Plans

As I mentioned in my It’s Christmas message this is the time of year that Hornby announce their plans for the coming year. The last couple of years it has been on Christmas Day but this year it has been kept until today to formally make the announcement. Every year there is an issue of a news embargo requested by Hornby following their briefing of the plans to the media in early December until they formally release the information themselves to the public domain.
This embargo was originally, and now somewhat ironically, put in place at the behest of the printed media. You can, however, bet your bottom dollar that one magazine or other, often blaming print / distribution schedules will report on the plans earlier than the official release date, as has once again happened this year.
This also leads to much froth and debate on web forums about what has been released or can and should not yet be said, however, at the end of the day, it is all publicity and noise generated for Hornby.

Although I have known about Hornby’s plans for sometime, unlike some blogs and forums I have respected Hornby’s intended release date hence this post today.
I am not going to provide full details of all their plans but I am happy to outline below the Southern related items that will be of interest to us Southern Modellers.

BR(s) Converted Maunsell Pull- Push Sets and Third/Second Open

Image of Pre-production version (yes minus buffers) of the Hornby Converted Maunsell Pull Push set (Picture copyright and courtesy of Hornby Magazine)

Twenty Pull Push sets were converted by BR(SR) from late 1959 to mid 1960 as replacements for earlier Pull Push sets of SR and pre-grouping design, such as the ex LSWR Gate Stock sets that have already been announced by Kernow Models.
They consisted of an 1935 built ex-Diagram 2403 Maunsell Brake Corridor Composite and a Diagram 2023 (ex 1930 built Diagram 2005) Maunsell Second Open (was designated a Third Open until 1956) neither were styles previously produced by Hornby.

Hornby will be releasing the sets both as a coach pack as Set 610 and a train pack as set 600 with M7 30029 (Picture courtesy of Hornby Magazine)

The brake end was modified by inserting two windows to form a driving compartment, with the corridor connection removed, and droplights replacing the familiar former guard’s lookout duckets. Similarly the outer end of the Second Open had its corridor connection removed but the corridor connection between the two vehicles was retained.

Maunsell Diagram 2005 Third/Second Open (Picture courtesy of Hornby Magaine)

On one hand an obvious choice for Hornby due the success of the standard Maunsell coach range meaning that they have underframes etc. already in place. On the other hand as they did not already have the Diagram 2005 Third / Open Second in the range it has meant two new body moldings. The Second / Third Open type will also be released as a Diagram 2005 loose coach in Olive Green as No. 1400 and BR(s) Green as s1314s.

SR / BR(s) Bogie Van B

Hornby Bogie Van B

Following on from Hornby’s lovely four wheeled Van C released a couple of years ago, the addition of the bogie Van B is a natural and often asked for progression as currently only the Ratio kit is available.
The Van B’s were first built to diagram 3093 in 1937, being 50ft over headstocks, steel framed with mixed 6½” / 3½” planking on the body side and fitted with standard Southern 8ft bogies (as Hornby have already exquisitely modeled on there Maunsell stock). Some were fitted with a stove for the guard the only real obvious difference being the chimney, and in Southern days the livery, as the stove fitted versions were not for working off the SR, identified them by orange painted squares at the top of the sides at each end and the lower part of the Guards door.

Other items

In addition to the above totally new items there will be DCC Sound fitted versions of rebuilt Merchant Navy 35023 Holland-Afrika Line and rebuilt West Country 34040 Crewkerne. The Railroad range will also gain the original old style ‘Schools’ Class as 911 ‘Dover’ in pre 1931 livery, but with loco drive in place of the old tender mounted Ringfield motor. New liveries include: a short frame M7 249 and narrow cab T9 708 with watercart tender both in SR Bulleid black , SR Green N15 771 ‘Sir Sagramore’, wide splasher T9 30313 with late totem,  BR lined black ‘Terrier’ 32670 with early emblem and original West Country 34001 ‘Exeter’ with early emblem.
Britannia class appears as 70004 “William Shakespeare”  in full Golden Arrow regalia as she would have carried for hauling the service when she was allocated to Stewarts Lane between September 1951 and June 1958.

Hornby have advised their intent to ensure that all are release during the calendar year,  and are sufficiently advanced in the design / production process to achieve this,  having resolved some of the supply chain issues experienced during 2011 (which includes the use of new factories / companies in China).

The much rumored 2Bill emu has not been announced, perhaps Hornby are keeping this for another year, following on from mixed reaction to their 4Vep and with production of the 5Bel Brighton Belle units now being carried over to 2012?

The advent of the Third/ Second Open might perhaps lead to the production in the future of a Maunsell Restaurant Car as these were generally paired together or am I am wish listing…

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